Nepe you have shown disdain to anomymous posters many times. Wake up NEPE, because if I am not mistaken more than 99% of the posters in sajha are anonymous. Anonymous people are discussing about things and answering each others questions here in sajha. Seems like you don't have the balls to answer questions directed at you, and you don't have the balls to continue discussions by answering valid questions.

Don't be pleading your way out citing anonymous posters reason. If you don't want to discuss with anonymous posters then you should not be posting or discussing in sajha. Or wait, do you only discuss with anonymous posters who agree with you? and who love you for quoting your own lines. Wah Nepe Wah!

Newuser what kind of philosophy is that where you are guilty until you can prove you are innocent? Maoist?

"what if one prepared the write up in one state and than mailed or faxed to his friend in the other state, who logged in with the username...."

I think someone takes this too seriously. Can't help laughing. muhahahahahaha

Well Indi,
You made your points clear. I did it long before. Truth stands where it is and all of us should agree to accept the truth, whatever it is. End of my argument :)

I don't think I can help Indisguise, but what exactly is his grievance particularly when he does not appear to be particularly suspecting himself of being suspected of being somebody else too ?

Yo Nepe My fuggin problem is you....he he are you also going to take credit for spoiling Gyaney 's visit to UN like your dear Republic fren Antimoron? Or like him you are also after the $$$$ only too. he he he

The World may come to an end...but Nepe and his ASSTALK will continue.

Kasto maramar. Yar Ryaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag garne ja gaye ni, Nepala ni testai, Amricka ni tesati

Nepe, " Maramar" bhanne Gajal Chiana. Aru ta tesati ho Nepeko Gajal Chai Maile Mani

La Jawos Maramar shirshak ko Gajal, Nepe bata

Dear Nepe Sir,

I have had the pleasure of following many of your posting and counter arguments that were presented...for quiet some time. I must admit your thoughts are exceptional and your knowledge of Nepal's politics, very vast. Your arguments on CA being the way out is well justified (certainly that is what Maoist have demanded all along) and yes, I cannot agree with you more on that fact that it is not an option but a must for Nepal to move to a complete democracy. The real question is when, how and what form of democratic system? Sometime back you also made a strong argument that in the heart of the Maoist problem lies the institution of Monarchy. I have thought about it many a times, and I have failed to convince myself how an end to Monarchy is an end to the current problem. Certainly, I agree Monarchy is part of the problem but how is it a panacea? Many of us have been more than willing to stop once we label the Maoist as a bunch of terrorist (I have been as guilty in the past) but really shouldn't we also be asking why do they want CA in the first place? Is CA a means to their end or an end to their means? and most important of all WHO ARE THEY? If I am repeating what some of the folks have already asked or talked about...my apologies but I would appreciate if you could shine some light to some of these daunting questions that are making me lose sleep. (;-))

It is no question that Nepe is politically educated person of certain degree. He is also quite educated on there corners of life. He he must have a well balanced life.

Having said this all, I agree on certain points that Nepe brought out on Sajha from time to time although I disagree with his other points. Nepe and my meeting point is on monarchy-less Nepal. Just like most of the other countries in the world, we also donot need king's grace to run the country. By now, every tax-payer should realize that the monarchism is "SETO HATTI". It has no use at all. We as nepalese should realize by now that monarchims is remanant of feudal structure which is still in existence in most of un-developed countries (most of the african countries). The monarchism exists in Britain as well - some royalist might comment out. Or, others bootlickers might give examples of existing monarchism as well. Then a single question is - what is the whole purpose of having monarchism? Do you want to live a slave life in your country? I expect that those in sajha are well educated people. And personally I have not found any one from intellectual level who truly supports monarchism. Then question arises - who supports monarchism?

1 . Very uneducated people who was portrayed king as a God . This trick worked for a while in Nepal as well because Rana's Ruled the country until very late.

2. Those who are not intellectual level but want to show off on the society through power. And they think, the real power lies with King. If they can please the monarch, they can enjoy power. Good examples are Anchaladhsi, Ksthrapals type of people.

3.A cotire of Military section, who is enjoying the taxpayer's money for nothing. These are the poeple who are nothing from inside but have to showoff on society. Being a military and being close to King gives them a false sense of identity.

4. Political opportunist. These are the people who got always failed in their education, failed in every aspect of life. Politics for them is like holiganism. Examples are Panchyati Gundas.

5. Politically frustrated people who have no political identity but can join whichever group they want for their personal benefit. They are the people as Bhairabh Aryal said " Birali ko ghew dekhi Buhari ko jeuw samma bechne" kind. Most them happen to be hypocrite communists.

6. And finally, those like Sarad Chand Shah. They want to enjoy power from behind the curtain. And so called Rana's who can not even repair the broken wall of their house. They even have no clue how their parents made a house for them (it is actually tax payer's money).

So, We need a total revolution in our coutry if the coutry has to develop. We need a big social revolution. Whether you accept or not, most of the people have child slave back home in Nepal whether he/she is helping in kitchen or in daily house routines. I sometime discuss with my friends about this child slavary in Nepal. Most of the time every one defends saying they are helping those childs, which is morally wrong. And to talk about total revolution with out cleaning chaos is to be a hypocrite.

The first step of this revolution is throw monarchism.

I will post more later.

A)

Newuser!

Let me assume that you did, albeit I am little skeptical about it. But it's all right.

Inasmuch as of your stated word, might I as well remind you what you retorted. I do not have any expectation, but just hope. Hope that you would at least have this decency to put your foot where your mouth is, so to speak.

You said, "If you want me to declare in sajha that indisguise is NOT my suspect, declare categorically that you are NOT Anti_G."

I wrote: ". . . am not showing any rigidness and am categorically denying it."

Aided by the following statement preceding the afore-posted avowal you demanded . . .

I) "I might disagree/argue with him, yes, but I would not stoop to the level you might choose to or that very person does."
II) "If I have to disagree to him, I would do this in my name."


"Truth stands where it is and all of us should agree to accept the truth, whatever it is."

Nicely put. Here is a chance for you.:)

"I wonder would you even do your bit now." I certainly did mine.

Hmmmm . . .

=====================================================

B)

Tell you what, whoever said, "ignorance is BLISS," must have been a wise man.

Thanks for the passing thought though :)

InduisGuise : )

IndisGuise :)

--- Just so it does not create any confusion ;)
Hehe.

Om shanti...:D

THE END

Haude_ko_bhai and sd_man,

Thank you for your kind words to me.

I think, information-wise, my knowledge about Nepal's politics is rather poor. However, I meditate a lot on whatever I get to know. Unfortunately or fortunately, most of my meditation has remained with myself.

In Sajha, I have been busy either dealing with petty issues or keep answering to very basic political questions again and again and again. Elsewhere, I have yet to gain a self-confidence to be a good communicator and a self-credibility to gain the self-confidence. :-)

I am really glad to have someone ask me the questions, on which I have spent countless sleepless nights too.

However, since I can neither put all my thoughts in readable words nor have I organized whatever I can, here are some quick and random thoughts.

1. Constituent Assembly:

CA is indeed a magic stick for contemporary political discourse in Nepal. And It is so not for CA or, if it ever happens, for it's outcome per se, but for the discussion or rather the height, depth, width and quality of the discussion it is generating.

It might shock many to hear this politically incorrect statement from me, but I think Pre Asoj-tantra era was a dark age of our history. It was violently stagnant, intellectually sterile, full of political andhavishwas, taboos, witch-hunts, jadoo-toona and a lot of witch-doctors. A total middle age of our democracy. People were perplexed, intellectuals were clueless, politicians were helpless.

Intellectuals were hysteric about peace, but they had no idea about the shape, size and fortitude of it. Baburam Bhattarai used to ridicule them by saying they are only talking about ABSTRACT peace. It was indeed so.

Politicians were sure that they are in a quagmire and there is no key to unlock it. They had to talk about peace to kill their time somehow. If you look at our government's presentation during first two peace talks, you will throw up to see lack of authority, ideas, confidence and self-respect with them.

I was in Kathmandu, when the preparation for the first talk with the Maoists was going on. There was an euphoria in the air. May be hysteria is a better word to describe it. Because nobody was really caring about the details. In the entire population of Kathmandu, I found only one man thinking coolly and thinking real hard. He was my professor, Prof. Agrawal. He was surprised with the hysteria and people's blindness not see that the government did not have the 'key'. His exact words were- "why can't they see that it is the King not the government who has the 'key' to the success of the peace talk ? But nobody is talking about the King at all !"

Peace talk came and went. Went it violently. Among the first casualty was a brother-in-law of a friend of mine living together with me. That's was my first up-close with the Maoist war.

Anyway, to make long story short, today our intellectuals are not talking about peace in ABSTRACT form, but in real shape, size and durability. And this change came riding the slogan of CA. CA liberated the nation from it's quagmire with every taboos and denials.

Now, peace, democracy and nation building is no more reduced to a matter of a "negotiated settlement" among so called three political powers, but has become a process initiated, participated and approved by the fourth power that had been forgotten- we the people.



The discussion on CA is educating all Nepalis, from ordinary people to political pundits, about this very aspect of democracy.

So it is the educating discussion that the slogan of CA has brought rather than the CA itself is what will enable us to find a way to end the war, establish and nurture democracy and engage all of us in the nation building.

In my older communication, I have plainly promoted CA itself as a means to solve the conflict and to establish democracy. However, I was banking on it more as a PROCESS than an EVENT.

Frankly speaking, a national resolve on the major political issue/s must already be in place before we form CA. If CA is formed before we have a national resolve on fundamental issues, then it might take another 10 years long physical fight among honorable members of CA to finally come up with a draft of the constitution.

So CA makes more sense as a post-revolution event than as a revolution itself.

And thanks to Gyanendra's utter greed for power, we are on the way to that revolution.

I doubt Gyanendra will ever agree to the give up power voluntarily (I mean just under gentleman's moral pressure ), because what he did on Feb 2 is essentially to decide to ride a tiger. Now, the minute he blinks, the minute he gets off, he will be eaten raw and mercilessly. He knows it.

However, if he agreed for/announced things like National Referendum on monarchy or even CA to take a chance before things get out of control, what will happen ?

I am sure everybody will welcome it.

If it is Referendum, it is going to be equivalent of a revolution.

If it is CA, the campaigning period is going to be very eventful and in one way or the other, some level of national resolve on fundamental political issue/s will be there before drafting of the constitution starts.

Events might take some unpredicted turns too. However, they will have to come eventually to the point of revolution.

*** *** *** ***

2. Now about the Maoists.

Who are they ?

Someday (hopefully soon), the Maoists are going to be a history and we will see tons and tons of literature on the Maoists by researchers and litt?rateurs. So I will leave it for then.

I think the important question for us for now is: are the Maoists domesticable in democratic (republic) Nepal ?

My answer is Yes.

And I see at least two strong points of basis for that.

First, ideological.

Maoists' literature is full of ambiguity, instead of outright denial, about the failure of the communist movement from the world. And there is enough room for ideological adjustment to 'democracy' (multi-party system). As a matter of fact, their model of '21st Sataabdi ko Janabad' does incorporate this idea or rather ambiguity in it.

I believe that, under a positive and strong pressure, of course, this ambiguity can provide an ideological way out for the Maoists to integrate into the mainstream democracy. I mean the Maoists are in no ideological prerogative, so to speak, to continue their journey to one party communist republic at any rate.

Second, the cause of the multiparty democratic republic of Nepal, as we all know, was raised and brought to this point by nobody else but the Maoists, albeit as a 'minimum agenda', but with full acknowledgement that Nepali population is never ready to go beyond that.

Now, when there will be a choice between owning the glory of a successful revolution rightfully by nurturing it and choosing to throw oneself to an uncertain and lonely future by being an enemy to upalabdhi of the revolution, what will Maoists do ? My hope/fear is as good as anybody else's.

So, the most critical part of domestication of the Maoists is a strong and positive (pro-democracy) pressure on them.

Our civil society and political parties need to be very careful and determined about that. I do not see them being sufficiently so. That is not good.

Nepe

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I started this thread rather late and I am only responding to Nepe's following remark " Maoists are in no ideological prerogative, so to speak, to continue their journey to one party communist republic at any rate. "

Unfortunately Nepe forgot that the Maoists in India and Nepal have joined forces to establish communism not just in Nepal, here is the excert from the source "The Maoists declared that they will unite to fight, until the time when "conspiracies hatched by imperialists and reactionaries are crushed and the people's cause of socialism and communism are established in Nepal, India and all over the world/b."
here is the source http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/09/04/2003270327

We all like to imagine that moaists will one day "wake-up" and realize that they are only day dreaming, however ground reality says otherwise.
ps. I am an ocassional browser and was complled to post this.. pardon me for jumping in ;-)

View/Share this post only

started this thread rather late and I am only responding to Nepe's following remark " Maoists are in no ideological prerogative, so to speak, to continue their journey to one party communist republic at any rate. "

Unfortunately Nepe forgot that the Maoists in India and Nepal have joined forces to establish communism not just in Nepal, here is the excert from the source "The Maoists declared that they will unite to fight, until the time when "conspiracies hatched by imperialists and reactionaries are crushed and the people's cause of socialism and communism are established in Nepal, India and all over the world."
here is the source http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/09/04/2003270327

We all like to imagine that moaists will one day "wake-up" and realize that they are only day dreaming, however ground reality says otherwise.
ps. I am an ocassional browser and was complled to post this.. pardon me for jumping in ;-) darn it ..my html skills ..

Nepe States,"I think, information-wise, my knowledge about Nepal's politics is rather poor. However, I meditate a lot on whatever I get to know. Unfortunately or fortunately, most of my meditation has remained with myself."

In other words you have NO FUGGIN CLUE WHAT IS GOING ON. You have no facts to base your statements. OTHERWISE KNOWN AS ASSTALK...BUT THAT HAS NOT STOPPED YOU FROM WRITING THESIS AFTER THESIS OF ASSTALK

To put it in plain simple english---> YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT

Nepe,

Flaws in your paper.

1. Your assumption that maoists will settle for democratic republic.
As you have also mentioned and I aso have mentioned they say its a min requirement. They are the most barbaric force. Often times they have said one thing and done another. If they sign a deal saying they will be committed to democracy and give up violence, then only they could be trust.

Without such commitment, if the monarch is removed there will be communist republic cause the democratic force is the weakest of all right now.

2. CA

Thats what is moaists demand. Before giving up to maosits demand, the democratic force should get some return out maoists as committment to peace and giving up their red state dream.

3. We are in the same boat regarding monarch not giving away thrown.
But the problem you forget to understand is to get rid of monarch there will be lotta bloodshed. There are 100,000 army men. They are also our own brothers and sisters. We need a peaceful solution to the crisis than your radical ultra extrimist views.

Bottom Line:

From your paper, you are no different than other extremist.

ABout yourself:

If you wanna lead people, learn to listen to your people.

My wish:

Sustainable Peace and proseperity for Nepal and Nepalese

HF

lFreaking typos.

Agree 100% to highfly for points 1 and 2. From my view though the issue you raised in the num 3 deserves to be in the numero-une gravity. So - because there are entirely two different armies with exactly opposite doctrines and philosophies. Getting them under a single command would mean that the common command should be reverred by both of the doctrines.

Regarding the element of point 3,
I am of the view that (well, just a view, I am a desh-chhoduwa with no more potential left for any immediate meaningful contribution to Nepal, all I can do is just wish) the CA as well the command of armies, both RNA and PLA, should go to the civil society or an ACLU-style body (exactly coincide with Ashu in this). For that to happen, and be sincerely carried out, NONE of the present parliamentarian parties are eligible. How and why would and should the RNA and the PLA execute under the command of somebody ridiculous enough like Girija or Deuba or Makune and what justifies it? Changing the existing command of an army to a new one demands exemplary moral standing of the new command, otherwise its sure gonna fail and fail for the worst. I would rather trust King G himself than these enuchs like Girija and Makune and et al.

On the other hand, there are pretty wise and cool people in the lower ranks or as supporters within every party. Even most of the "royalist" are as such not because they like Gyanendra and Paras but rahter they have sufficient reasons to doubt Girija and Makunes. Even in Maobadi, I dont believe all are blood-thirsty cannibals. Prachanda and his camp sure has farther goals, at least enveloping the South Asian region, however, in Babu Ram Bhattarai I find a genuine, visionary, and practically the most capable would-be leader of Nepal. So, my dream is that an empowered ACLU-style body takes over as the interim govt, then prepares sth like a "declaration of rights" or "charter of rights" and goes for CA while commanding the united army. This would encourage a polarization (not necessarily formation of a new party) of like-minded people. Thus, the democratic camp, from Narahari and Gagan to Baburam Bhattarai will be eventually empowered (well, at least with the charter of rights ensuring their survival).

For these to happen, I opine that the time is still not ripe. King G should be let to enjoy for the 3 years he has demanded for, even more, while the kind of bargaining-opposition (morphed jealousy if u will) from Girija etc should also be encouraged. It will most likely congregate the ACLU-walas vis-a-vis the [Gyanendra and Girija and whatever the evil ones]. Once the ACLU-walas are strong enough, they will have all the domestic and international and what not to mention - every kind of prowess to establish a democratic republic of nepal. still dreaming :)

keep dreaming...

Shree5,

It is really sad to know that you find Babu Ram a visionary leader. He is a pice of shittttt. What did you find in him so that you are so much convinced?- Ideology? committment? intellectual? He is just an egoist.

About education: Yes, he earned PhD, does not mean he is PhD+. Correct me if I am wrong, but I have not seen him being a successful architect, if that is what a basis of measurement about Babu Ram is. If one can not excel on his profession (in this case Baburam/Architect) he/she is (and should be considered) failure. This applies to everyone and this is THE TRUTH. So does Babu Ram.

About politics: His political belief is an out let of his ego rather than his interest and everybody knows that. Had he been professionally successfull as his friends like that Devkota, he would be least intereated on such violent kind of holiganism. This is like "Sauta ko rishle poi ko kakhma mutne". Ever since he started vomiting his ego through politics, he started reading some junk books (world had better books by then) just to get outer touch of political jargon words especially those used by communists. To make them really interesting, he started writing very cryptically as if there is some more to un-ravel on his political thoughts.

About his interveiws: I doubt if his interveiws are really logical one. They are full of jargos (people like to use those jargons when they want to showoff, true knowledge flows through plain writing) carrying very less (IF ANY) messages.

About his vision: Give me an example, I mean a very strong one, where Babu Ram has mentioned to lead the country? Yes, he has a flurry road map, I have read that crap too. Has any one from his camp defined what they truely want? All in all, their so called YUDDA has no direction and no destination. Now, their YUDDA is an financial source of Gundas. So, where is MR Baburam's vison?

Baburam's life is no important then those whom he/ his Gundas killed mercilessly. It should not be a regrate if those victim's family members, their future generation go after Baburam kind of people and carry out genocide and hunt them and their generation forever.

We need peace not feaking shitt dead ideology like this......

Later

sd,

Happened to read a book (perhaps the same roadmap you had been talking abt) a few years ago. found quite interesting - for the dissection of the socio-economics of Nepal, his proposals of an integrated south-asian (nepal and the parts of india in south of nepal) approach to developement etc. and the publication was, i guess, before they went to jungle. even at that time, he had at least seen the cause and things like that... his version for refactoring of the state, constituent assembly and alike came way before the mainstream politicians saw the idea, and esp the idea of refactoring of state in the current maoist proposals is also due to him. but i am totally with you, i hate violence even more than anybody else.


keep rolling...

Shree5,
In my opinion, it is not important as who spoke about republican set up or constituent assembly first. That is like a child's game. The important question is when to use it. Every Tom, Dick and Harry knows what republican set up is about and what constituent assembly is about. These are not like some one invented and deservs political patent. So, whether this Bhattarai piece of shiiittt had spoken it earlier or no has zero meaning.

Yes, his integrated south asian development plan is no different than a fiction article. His article has no depth. It is connected from east to west, north to south and breaded with cryptic knots. That is all.

He is leading a 2-tier of peoples. (a) Somewhat educated but egoist mass. You can find those arrogant schoolars spread in west as well. They all are "mauka ko faida" waala.
(b) truely deprived people, deprived of education,deprive of job, different religion etc. He along with some other handful are masturbating their mind over these deprived people's need.

I would not be surprised to read a news if someone from his camp kills him mercilessly

Later....